I personally think that the pistol round is the best part of the match for me. I also think that if the opposing team wins the pistol round, and we are still eco for the 2nd round, getting the win over the opposing team that was able to buy is a much greater achievement.
Sometimes you don't necessarily have to eco for the 1st 3 rounds if you get the bomb down. I just think that it adds to the skill of the game having to start on $800. Having said all that, it would be interesting to see how the $16000 idea works out.

lol i dont actually play this game any more but i think its a terrible idea, part of the game is winning the pistoley rounds if you cant do that you dont deserve to win. it could work if you limit to 1 awm per team i suppose but frankly it the game wouldnt be the same without the pistol round.

enjoy the experiment rats. :P

We have 1, _ONE_ tactic. Thats T pistolround on inferno! I'd cry if someone took that away from us

also doesnt anyone enjoy winning eco/deag rounds these days, i dont think it gets any better.

my point of view is that the pistol round is one of the biggest parts in the game, it also offers lower level teams the opportunity to pick up a three round advantage over the bigger team as although the guns are still level in the sense that both sides are using pistols it's always easier to take down someone messing with a glock than with an ak

don't change what isn't broken!

I think fRoD said it best in his return to 1.6 blog:

http://www.sourceisbad.com/frod.jpg

don't get me wrong, would be fun to use on the odd game :P

na dont take out pistol rounds

don't fix* i fail

pistol is random anyway, just think about it

it makes no odds really but 16k startmoney is the better idea

na pistol round is one of my fav rounds, as its the only thing i can get a 5/4 man in xD

pistol rounds are the decider for any game (on a high competative level)
if a team wins the pistol round, they get pumped and play a lot better and get more confident about themselves..
aswell as enable them to get maybe 5rounds straight off the bat (depending on what the other team buys)

scrapping pistol rounds would be a big mistake imo

Pistol rounds are a decent part, have to be really thought about due to how important it is. You never have to eco twice, plant and eco once, force buy or french eco loads of things to think about

10k start money, that still allows for money management. . and it allows T to buy for 3 rounds, CT for 2 rounds.

fRoD did say it very well,

also warlock thats very ture, if u loose pistol ur almost have to battle back cos thats an easy 3 rounds 4 either team if u loose 1st round !

spelling mistake

i wouldnt really go as far as saying pistol is random, the better team will win pistols 9/10 of the time - especially if ct have worked a set-up

I think a 16000 startmoney is a bad idea. I enjoy having to think of ways of getting past a team in the 2nd round
when you have lost the first. It's always more exciting and it can definately be done. It has been done, alot. Even on cbble as T, it can be done.
In the UK alot of people just have the mentality that "Oh we lost pistol fk this we're gonna lose the next 2/3 rounds" then on the 4th the "tactic" is "buy and win" .. Nice!
So I think keeping pistol rounds is a must. But for an experiment, 16k start is interesting. But ultimately, I don't like the idea in the long run.

pistol rounds are IMBA, you have to agress with glocks, short range weapons, where as the people holding you off have the better long range weapons

16k start money is like having warmup 24/7...
would be sicKle...



if your n3w

who doesnt love jumping out of balc on eco and bursting the house player in the face

its not cs without a handgun round imo

pistol rounds are the bigest opertunity to pull of ace's plus there so much more fun, it's alkways rushing and the epic battle between the pea shooters as u sit there tappy tappy waiting to see which of u die first.

16k would be okay i guess but it wouldn;t be AS fun.

lets just turn cs into a complete farse, shotguns only! 16k, no grens! :P

There's a reason why CS still uses $800 after being out for 9 years. It works.

Pistol rounds make cs matches, leave them alone

Pistol rounds are the best part, its where you see the most intresting strats, and its a time where everything is pretty much even. What would be great, is to have the pistol round as normal with $800, and then for the second round everyone have $16000, this would cut out those annoying eco's, and probally keep everyone happy. But ofcourse this would need a mod, and with all the whine about reg these days you would never see it happening online.

or play pistols only. the whole game

yeah i think your forgetting how FUN pistols rounds are, regardless of what youve said.

Ah I dunno, I think the pistol round is the most fun round of the game not to mention how rewarding winning an eco is if you lose the pistol round. If both teams start off with 16k there's no real lose of losing a gun nobody has to save, you can all run in rambo style. Besides it would throw away a lot of work etc.... I mean think , most clans now-a-days plan pistol for both halves for every map, and than maybe 2/3 standard tactics for gun rounds. I think without pistols it would be just boring , lock and pick.

So yu all don't mind not getting the chance to make a game of it on nuke after losing 12-3 as t you lose pistol as Ct and it game over without a chance to show what you can do ?

pistols are awesome

it is annoying how you can lose a match due to 1 pistol round but its a vital part in cs, shouldnt be removed.

thats why you shouldnt lose 12-3 as t on nuke

If you loose something like 12 - 3 or 11 - 4 then yes you know you really need to win pistol to have a shot, but just becasue it has more importance than the following 1-2 rounds whether they be eco or buy dependant upon the result of the pistol round, does not make it a bad thing, it simply makes it a valuable round to take to ease pressure.

dont remove pistols its a bad idea.

removing pistols would lose some of the most imaginitive tactics of the game.
clans know how important pistols are, which is why they work on them alot, along with crazy well planned eco;s to try and win back the advantage,
losing the pistol makes it shit, like cgs source. boring as fck.
It's not a case of not liking change, it's a case of knowing whats good and what isn't.
Also, defaulting the servers to $16,000 ..... We'd justrun a match.cfg, won't feel any different at all tbh.

Getting rid of pistols would be like Uzi leaving SGL... I.E things wouldnt ever be the same.

Keep Pistols

its because pistols are a 3 in 1 round which makes them so exciting, what better way to kick off a match?

dont remove pistols !

i guess pistol round is the winner in the debate

It would be like when blizzard bring out a new patch where people can get free epics !?!?!??!
Uzi Don't do it !!!! Don't nerf CS so everyone can get shiney purples. lol
I still think a league would be a good idea for it but wouldn't want to see it implemented full time. 16k would make it a little boring again because you don't have to worry or save for anything, 8k or something could be a little more exciting. cause it has the same possibilities if u awp 1st round and lose your in trouble.

Roundtime: 1 minute
Freezetime: 4 seconds
Buytime: 10 seconds
C4timer: 20 seconds (25 for de_cbble)
Max rounds: 8 - This is NOT charge only, all rounds count. Overtime is MR1 with 10000 starting money.
Startmoney: 10000

pistol rounds have the most thought out strats due to their importance. plus pistol aiming is alot more skilled than rifles. ecos/decos etc make games exciting

leave it the way it is...

is valve paying SGL to kill off 1.6?

Leave the pistols alone and let's play BO3 and play the cup over 2 days.

Everything nic said is fine except mr 1 for overtime which is noob. Oh i also think mr9 with overtime mr3 would be better.

Jungleboy still raging! Can't have mr3 for overtime, as theres only 8 rounds a half. Thats too much.

Also, pistol rounds are the best part of the game, I find them more enjoyable then the rest of the rounds. Pistol rounds are an important part of the game really.

Don't change it.

Personally not a good idea pistol round and the start money make cs more tactical, puts teams on ecos etc and makes people and teams think a little differently.
Keep Start money $800 and leave pistol round alone.

i agree pistols are the best part of the game

but... but .. but doesnt everyone love the pistol round 5 mans?

pistol round is awesome, its a vital round too
pistol round is my favourite round

But why should any one round be more vital than any other. If you had 16k the fourth round would be vital if you were losing as you would be running out of cash. It doesnt remove the economics of the game it simply postpones them for a few rounds giving a team the chance to take advantage of playing the dominant side on a map they might well otherwise be denied by losing the first round..

Its like removing a half of the game. Its like starting at round 4/5 if you've won every round and somehow not bought anything + getting 5 mans + defuse (x5). You start at the top without going through the motions, you're thrown into the mixer straight away (loads of money). Boring.

Keep pistol rounds.

it wil be ruined if you take out the pistol rounds :/

T LOSE (bomb planted) = $2.200
1xLOST = $1.400
2xLOST = $1.900
3xLOST = $2.400
4xLOST = $2.900
+5xLOST = $3.400

So a team playing as T and loosing would have it a lot easier than before since they already have 16k from the start and by the time they've used that up they'll be getting 2900 or 3400 for every lost round after + bomb plants if possible.
This will surely mess the money system up, since loosing teams will have it a lot easier money wise, specially when you play as T. So you would probably see games where the t part would become stronger or a lot easier to play.

'dominant side' totally disagree

Keep pistols rounds for the main league. Could be fun to have 16k in a small cup though.

reuben you disagree that some maps are easier for the CT or the T side ? as in cbble is a CT dominant map. Go on disagree again so i can point and laugh

Meah if it was a debate my views on it would be:

Against removing pistols:
- It's an already solidified part of the game which people enjoy.
- You have to put in a lot of effort to win the round and it gives you a breather for another round of 2.
- It starts the game at a level heading and gives one side the advantage to get some rounds rolling.
- It's one of the most (if not THE most) exciting round in the game.
- It's the way the game is made, so you can build up to security rather then work down from it.
- It keeps the game interesting.
- If every game was to start with 16000 it's straight into the more 'boring filler' rounds
- There's little chance for dominance and force buying or forcing people to manage the cash flow.
- The chance that everyone will be naabs and start off with awps 5/5 de_dust2_awp (giggle)
- Eco rounds(after pistol) where you have the chance to completely upset the game would be removed.
- The actual excitment of a pistol round.

For removing Pistols:
- Takes away the eco rounds directly after the pistol giving the losing team a chance to get right back in.
- Would mean (unless your very retarded) no more double eco's
- It would mean every round is of the same value rather than bagging a 3in1.
- Delaying or even removing eco's from the game if you buy intelligently.
- Could increase the general excitement of gun rounds as they are all of equal value.

Being honest that's what I came up with while a little bored in work and just taking a look at both sides, I know the *Save pistols* argument might be a little more filled in but there might be some bias in there.
Anyway that's just my views on it.

Think everyone loves pistol rounds, least your tryin summit new for uk cs jaaaaa

in fact in the sense of the lose bonus, yes it does.
You would be able to buy and lose 3 rounds in a row and still be able to buy on the 4th round because of lose bonus.
So yeh $16k really does change the economics alot, it makes it a completely different game.

Eeven when winning a match comfrotably teams dont usually buy 5 awp's , why would they do so in this instancce ?

de_cbble

nah the awp thing was a joke but I was trying to imply that no-body would care what they bought cause with 16k you tend to go for nightvision or something of equal useless value , because like it's ben pointed out , you don't really have to worry about money especially if ur a T 4.2k will get you pretty much a full buy and after the 4th lost round your getting 3.4/3.6 add a kill that that and ur full buy pretty much.

Pistols adds another dimension to the game, rather than watching 15 very similar rounds always using the same weapons. It also benefits teams that manage their money system better as well as coming up with interesting strats for pistol rounds and eco rounds.

I've heard people say why not remove the money system all together? because that way every round would be contested to the highest level and it would be harder for teams to gain mometum and might make games closer? I'd just say it makes it less interesting. When a good team comes up against a lesser skilled team the pistol round is often a chance to upset the balance by doing something totally unexpected and gaining a few rounds you might not otherwise get, not only that but using pistols is an extra skill which would be less valuable with 16k.

The money system is part of what makes 1.6 such a popular and well supported game and what helps to make it unique, so removing it or weakening it with 16k only detracts from its appeal imo

Worst idea ever.

would make the game more balanced, but i dont think anyone will want to see pistol rounds removed totally.

Like mark said, if you go the harder side first and lose say 4-11 3-12, then you unluckily lose pistol ur fucked even though you might of rolled them 12-3 in the gun rounds too

Eeven when winning a match comfrotably teams dont usually buy 5 awp's , why would they do so in this instancce ? u sure about that uzi ?

5 awps on train = win ... dam i hate thos sort of people

the only problem i can see is that cant people just reconnect/make an excuse up to reconnect to gain 16K again?

said it before and ill say it again, uzi has gone mad with poweR!!!
keep pistols tbh

You should learn to dodge chris zig ! zag ! go !

easy to stop reconnects, the cfg sets

mp_startmoney 16000
3xrestarts
mp_startmoney 800 (or some other arbritary amount)

so the last restart has the righ tmoney , but if they rejoin its back to whatever else you set it at.

in principal, i agree with you. the game would be better off, to play, AND as a spectacle.
however this decision is not going to be made on a gaming forum, an to be quite honest, is not going to be made at all. take peace in the fact that you're right, however gaming leagues everywhere would in my view never change the current 1.6 system. it's too "set in its ways".
and though in some aspects games are ruined by them, it does allow (with some fortune) a "lesser" team to gain some momentum over a titan by winning that all important pistol.

Frankly i've played cs since just after the early beta versions of the game. Back then you had pistol rounds and to be quite frank with you it would just spoil the nature of counter strike to replace it with a heavy buy from the start. 1.6 is slowly dieing in many terms anyways, you really think this is going to attract more people into the game etc....more like totally leave out of pure desperation if you ask me. Can't say i toally agree with it because theirs a level of skill involved to counter pistol the round after (which good teams win on). So i some way you would be taking away a level of skill and tactic away from the game. Shouldnt even be a question in my eyes...maybye have a select tourdement where this happens but other than that no!

After this summer, cs is gonna be pretty dead anyway with everyone heading back to uni, kids back at school etc, no cpl winter etc

i tell you what, how about everyone starts with whatever gun they want, they choose a nade.

Or why don't you just play cod4 or source.

Pistols are what make the game interesting. Its the kind of reason that football (soccer) is more popular than the american sports, because when something happens its INTERESTING. Games aren't like in basketball where a 110-106 scoreline isnt high scoring. When something happens its different and special. Eco tactics can mix a game up and some of the most famous rounds in cs were eco rounds.

Where would heaton be without his eco ace on 4k all those years ago?

"Where would heaton be without his eco ace on 4k all those years ago?"

playing with SK earning loads of monies anyway?

no no no... pistol rounds ahve as much skill and tactical importance as any other gun round, it will take an edge out of the game... as said b4 maybe a fun cup were ya start out with 16k but it looks like a land slide that not really anyone wants no pistols and im sure it would piss alot of people off and may also help to kill off the uk cs1.6 scene imo

BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD IDEA!
Its below bad, its superbad!

Leave it tbh, pistol makes it just as interesting.

If you lose pistol round doesnt mean the other team has 2 free rounds... If you eco them moral goes ^ so pistol round is an important round in the game .x

being able to buy guns is one of the things that makes cs such a good game compared to cod/quake/unreal/anyotherfps - pistol rounds are pretty much exclusive to cs - i cant think of any other games (in my short memory bank) which have such a large variation in rounds - pistols, ecos, decos, buys, force buys and lol buys

uzi inspired by cgs, people saying eco round aces no one mentioned how much fun it is to eco bash, "mid rush" nades and mp5 spray!

no. leave the pistol round $800.

Oh dear terrible idea why change something that nobody is complaining about what is the reason for change ??? nothing.......completely wipes out the fun of an deco second round win and also why not change the buy menu, while you are at it to :

1. ak
2. m4
3.awp
4.he
5.smoke
6.flash

because nothing else will get used otherwise. A team can buy mp5 armor if the bomb is planted first round and that would make for a pretty balanced 2nd round . DON'T change anything else to 1.6 your getting sucked into this source bollocks! please leave it alone

dont change it.

i didnt read alot of that, too much :<

but most teams actually are starting to win back the 2nd and 3rd round with nice team play, because the winners of first round dont want to be eco rushed or suprised so they play safe, eco people get the big uphand on tactic and suprise. A good first round from both teams may result in mp5's vs deagles which is arguably a fair fight hands down since half the people use deagls against ak/awp/colts i win k?

Uzi, I think its time to back away from this idea lol.

yer, i think pistol rounds are good...

Sounds like someone is basically gonna copy the same rules from the CGS source tourny. Uzi you might aswell get a can of gasoline and a lighter and personally set cs 1.6 a light because you'll defo kill this game completely in britain if you changed the rules to this.

To answer the debate look at this video if you make it 16k youll make it just like CGS source defeating the point of cs 1.6 being a classic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqRzG3ULpfI&feature=related

look at 1:28 were he talks about how you start the source game at the start with 16k

so has it finished ? pistols are staying ?

Well Xtoph, you have to ask if the pistol rounds were ever going away to start with. A cynic might suggest that I made something called "The Big Debate" that I might put something in it to start some controversy. Thanks guys - didn't let me down !

next week on the big debate - should jovan and jshy be made senior admins ? .....................

lmfao

hahahahaha cockhead uzi

pistol rounds can decide the game and it adds skill as u have to manage your money

16k start up if for css scrubs

jovan and jshy as admins?
spose you're gonna get maj to work on the next version of anticheat too? :P
lol

now youve got the idea

If you lose the pistol round, it makes it more entertaining to watch the 2nd and 3rd round. Teams do crazy things in desperation, and they usually work too.

Also, with 16k startmoney, if you play the economy game at least a little bit, there wont be a need to eco more than 2-3 times a match. Eco rounds are too fun too lose.

lol uzi next week on the big debate - should jovan and jshy be made senior admins ? ..................... did make me laf lol added with this spose you're gonna get maj to work on the next version of anticheat too? people at work think im now strange xD

It's a skill based cup really,
you can be a noob but still be AMAZING with a pistol, for strOng, pistol rounds have always sucked
x

if they start with 16k it may cause people that run out of money to retry and that would be a pain in the ass

rofl just like in pubs u get the retry heroes to get decent score ull get rety heroes to get 16k cash

would be fun for cup's, maybe get a more true result of skill

if pistol round was taking away i would fkn move to promod thats how shit it would be

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