Speechless

I havent been playing long enough to have experienced cs when people said it was so great, but have UK teams ever done so well in the past at international events? Though i did watch some demos of the old CSGN invite games, i thought some of the aim was rli poop on them.. again thats just what ive seen from my "limited" experience..

Sad but true.

Teams and players ARE better now then 3 years ago

Biggest example I can think of this is back then, the main style of play was to crouch and spray

Now the game is so much more fast paced, nearly everyone duckjumping all over and tapping their shots

Well I think that on the whole players and teams ARE much better now than a few years ago. For me CS 1.6 changed when wNv had a brief period of domination with their fast agressive style of offensive and defensive play (although others such as Rival had used it before them). Also crouch hopping changed the game alot allowing a single player to quickly flank multiple players in turn making the game more unpredictable. So for those in the UK Community that actually enjoy playing 'properly' the game is alot faster and more skilled than it was a couple of years ago. However the number of 1.6 teams that actually want to play properly in the UK is probably down to single digits now.

As for the rest of the UK community, well it's a state. It's pretty much pointless getting a UK PCW without AC.

While I agree that the talent pool in the UK is smaller now then it used to be, this read more like a rant after getting cheated against in a mix. There is no actual proof that more people cheat now then back then. Hell we didn't even really have AC's back then save for PunkBuster. Also people judge ability on official results, where you say they cant cheat, not pcw's.

This just didn't as much like a debate as it did a rant in my eyes.

i think people see it as "cs was easier back then" as some of the people that played higher level that have tried making it recently have just failed big time - aim wise they can easily keep up as i mean that really can't have changed but the argument that there is more understanding of the game i would go along with - tricks on the game are picked up from sight, therefore as the game has gone on people have picked up tricks from others and slowly started to make their own habits (one major one being russian walking)

lol just read all of that so true Uzi

All I could judge it on is 1.5 / early 1.6 CS videos, haven't watched many demo's, but some of the things they do really do suprise me, they don't seem as good as you would expect them to be, but your cheating arguament is very true, cheating in UKCS is a state now :X

The number of people over the past 18 months busted for cheating has gone up by over 400% and the number of people playing the game has actually gone down. Far more actually use cheats, frankly even if you didnt have any figurres to work from - thats a naive statement to make Bradd.

needs moar Cheating Death 4.13

The amount of talent, skill and experience has only upped since 2-3 years ago...




Only in the UK, maybe :/

For instance:

compLexity 05-06 (sunman, fRoD, Warden, tr1p, Storm) > eoLithic

Why do I think this? Because coL were around later, there was more to learn (nades, spams, boosts, strats) which would've given coL the advantage over a team like eoL...

My point is, teams are better now because players have learnt more over time and would destroy old players

My prime example? HeatoN.

(Of an old player )

back in the day of CD.

loads of the kids cheat now days... for e.g. redcunt, sorry redrum... then come out with "yea i dont play competitive anyway so i dont care im just gna play wow"

state of UKCS is so shit it will be dead due to players being banned from leagues for hacking

enjoy 1.6 whilst you can, i give it another year till it dies out...

I can only go from my experiences Uzi. Compared to when I used to play I haven't noticed an incrase in cheaters since coming back this summer. However that is only my experience. I accept though that at least in the time since SGLAC came around you would have a better idea about the number of cheaters then me.

as much as i hate to say it....the source scene > 1.6

people generally dont say players are better than they used to be. I feel its the other way round. I myself have got alot worse over time, yet im "top10uk"...... im not bothered with cheats, simply because I dont ever have to play them.

anyway its always unfair to try compare "skill level" of different eras, they always do it in sport and you just cant.

Couldn't agree more , those "TOP5UK" teams are there because of default. Played this game a long time although you wouldn't think it and I generally think it's all got worse, including the people who play it and not just skillwise.

Oh pipe down jimmyOB, any team in the top 5 is pushing on TCM/Dig.

The skill level hasnt changed imo just the mentality of the teams in the UK. Back in the 4k days with the mess that is mangiacapra etc they would just ignore any team below them and not help them (decent channels for games, regular pcw's etc) and that put UKCS back quite alot. Now the teams are alot more friendly and willing to help one another so we'll see if start to raise again.

Hopefully back to the level soon where Lastchance were winning the open/eurocup and suigen and choke were also doing v well. People just need to stop giving up all the time then coming back.

agreed, i personally feel the calibre of player has lessened. back when csgn was the top dog and we saw 8 teams in the first second and third div on csgn and think, my god, i cant see more than one shit team in that list.

in cs now its literally, dig,4k,tcm tlr and jogon aka 4fx, then coda/strong/eze/czar all that lot and then us shitters.

before there was as kelevra said just throwing a few names around, choke, suigen, firesomething, lastchance, c4u, etc etc etc, it was much better.

i think the players from those days, who either grew up or moved on etc have all disappeared, then the second wave of talent came in, and its nowhere near as good as it were.

then theres the cheating bastards, even if they arent cheating ppl accuse cos its so bloody often that someone is cheating, as nic said, not enough cheating-death v1.2.34. or w/e

i rly miss the old cs ):

UKCS worse than germany for cheaters!

I agree in the light of lack of new players playing cs. And that in my opinion is css fault. When i first started playing source had just been realised and it looked amazing. So i started playing it for like 8months. I then realised how awful it is and came back to 1.6. The reason people arent looking to play 1.6 is because the graphics are bad and its harder

personally 3-4 years ago before i played in any league apart from ED i used to look at CSGN div4 and think "wow they're good" - then after about a month i was in CSGN prem miles better than most of the teams outside of prem and a few in div1.. look at 4k(virtuoso), they've been a pretty top team for aaaaaages, madspunk in lastchance, shaq in TAG, mh in calibre?, jenuwin always been sick, monke in high5 etc. dig have been near the top for quite a few years now too... so apart from the old 4k team, don't really think any of the teams were that much better than the top few teams now at all. + the old 4K got beaten by goldbrick, then c4u, and 13-16 vs TmG at WCG qualifiers - so the gap wasn't that far apart for the last 3-4 years tbh.

As for cheating in the UK, wouldn't really know, never play any UK teams apart from ftd/strong people and rarely mix, but tbh, there's always been shit loads of cheaters at the lower levels of UKCS since as long as i remember, nothing new is it?

i think kelevra has a point...the cycle seemed to be: good batch of UK teams on the scene --> 1 or 2 get the backing from the limited DECENT sponsorship in the UK --> these 1/2 teams leave to go the int scene --> these teams forget the UK scene completely setting it back with the lack of competition...

it's al cyclical really...especially in the UK where backing is so limited...batches will come and go...i remember a couple years back when teams like forsaken, etc reformed for a while, the scene looked healthy, but then top clans just dropped off...there isn't the incentive to stick with it...after all, it's only a game...

last bit: there's no real way to compare it, even if you watch old demos, it's still not a comparison because if everyone was worse back then than now then it would look the same / better as now. - hard to explain

basically, back then u probably saw more amazing spray take downs - because people were worse at shooting back fast/acurately because they sprayed more than tapping and noone russian ran - just like now if you play people worse than you, you always get amazing frags etc, but when u play people who are you level you rarely get amazing frags because they can shoot you back as good as you shoot them.

true zaK but we dont have that luxury :P

I agree about the cheating thing, a massive amount of UK players seem to think its ok to cheat, then they have to audacity to call other people shit while theyre doing it.

Maybe it's because people have to be considered 'good' to get any respect as a person in UKcs, but the amount of people cheating just makes it so much easier to accuse from a dodgy shot or from just losing to someone you wouldnt expect to. In the end its competition, same as any real 'sport' so cheating makes you a complete cunt there is no excuse or way around it.

im sure many people who have already replied to this love to cheat (just for FUN of course!), still... we have dignitas at least

i agree that the old 4k didnt do much to help the scene internationally, but dig/4k have helped us a bit, and we've helped ftd/tlr/strong get into channels etc, but these channels are hard to get into for a reason, if they let anyone in they would be pointless.

+ didn't the forsaken reform do awful so that's why they folded again?

no. of players is shrinking rapidly

its pretty apparent to me

Cheating Death tbh, you could'nt touch that shit.

yeh the forsaken reform flopped on its arse

im not sure back wen we started in csgn div 4 and sgl div 2 we won all our divisions comftorably and got to prem relatively quickly but you dont really see that happen as much now maybe because the teams in the leagues are harder to beat but most likely because they fold after 2 weeks, i agree with robbs tho cant really compare a team of the past with a new one

i dont think any more people cheat now than they used to, but more certainly more get caught because now every online league has anti cheat and this was never the case before csgn made their own ac, it used to be the case that to prove you were a good player you had to attend a lan because nobody trusted online, now most players trust the anti cheat and its less of a factor.

the general standard of team cs has gone up, since hltv came in teams were able to pick up tactics from the top teams and use them more effectively in their own games and people are far more organised, even down to the flashes they throw and boosts they do before this the only way to get a clue was to play good teams and guess what they were doing, now with hltv.org everyone has access to watching a high level of cs which makes it easier to learn not only the strats but the game sense aspects and clutch play that seperated the top old school players from the rest.

the only real difference at the top of ukcs is the influence of cgs, other than the players in that most of the other top uk teams are made up of players that have been around for ages.

Less teams at the top these days but I don't think they are far off the skill level of old. A lot of really naieve and dumb players going about though, they joined cs late and missed out on a whole load of experiance.

As for more cheats today than 3 years ago, who knows uzi? the anti cheats 3 years ago were terrible and next to useless.

Fairly confident if I could be assed that I could pull a team together and hit top 3 within 3-4 weeks easy.

well, i'm not sure on the cheeting front but i just feel that cs has become so boring these days. I'd say when 1.5 was out i just found it a really fun game that i would reccomend to friends and was a giggle. As for the skill front i'm not really sure but what i feel is that their is much less oppitunity now adays for new people to come through shame really. Also as for the cheeting front i think it's great that so many people have been caught cheeting and most games are played on ac. It makes it a hole lot better and sort of means you dont have to feel like you have to suspect everything.

tbh players like myself and i speak for the rest of cZar are around 19-21 and dont have the time to be on mon-thurs and sunday every week pcwing and working on strats. We can just about get 2 days a week and an official, it just comes to a point when other things become too important than a game.

As for the cheater situation, i wouldnt know either we tend to play games from good invite channels or the top uk teams.

I remember when i used to be play TFC with ^wotr^ and the scene was really dieing hardly anyone to play, cs will be around for another 4+ years before it gets to that level. Its still healthy but saturating

tbh look at it this way....everything evolves over time it has to in order to survive. I do actually believe that the game skill level is so much better now days than in the old days.

i remember wotr

dont you play with geonix lgn? lets not talk about cheating if you do, sorry if im wrong!

tbh the top 10 of uk has never really mattered, its always been about the top 3, 4k dig and the outsider team who could make it if they had the backing, and im pretty certain the 3 teams of present are better and have had a more solid line up then the older teams

mmm, people who have quit just look at whos good now and think "they were shit when i played..." - i know i do it! people get better, but peoples opinions take much longer to change

Id say its only in the past year and a half that i have really started playing seriously and aiming to be at the to o f the game, still not there yet but i have to say.. Reading this thread and all the negative attitudes towards the future of the cs makes me realise that its really not a worthwhile investment. I have seirous doubts about how long the UK scene will keep going, at the end of the day its the players that keep it alive, from dignitas to players like cptsui, the quicker people leave the sooner there won't be a scene. I htink its coming quicker than i first imagined..

There were still a lot of cheaters back a few years ago, plenty infact and they were just as known as the cheaters in todays scene (jshy and that lot.)

Even in officals there were a lot, and a few caught - back then though they would cheat without AC and get caught by HLTV, if i recall kyle in county cup ages ago? maybe someone else though.

In terms of skillwise, I couldn't agree less - of course teams have improved a lot since then? theres about 40 more spams people have found, flash postions, normal postions, stacks and styles of play, including russian walking which improves an individuals game a considerable amount. Being able to nearly silently flank someone at full speed... yeah

I thought the same as zak, back when I used to love CSGN Div4 teams and thought they were the dogs bollocks, until I got the chance to play in div4, then I realised they were no better than myself (2nd to FtD damn!!) Kinda the same when I was looking at gamegune teams - I was a little nervous about getting battered about a bit, but really it's all down to teamwork.

Utter drivel? most of them quotes are fairly accurate - I don't think I've played for 5 years, someone who has only played for 3 is gonna be better than me, doesn't mean they won't either but time helps, cs you learn so much over the years and it's all about slowly improving rather than becoming god's gift in a matter of monthes.

Yes there is less competition than there used to be, but the people that play at the minute, they're the ones that have been around for a while, and will continue to keep playing, we rarely see the "im quitting" threads on UKCT or SGL anymore, thank god!

And everyone knows how enemydown is the beginner league of CS, nearly everybody has started playing there and then has progressed (through time as a matter of fact) onto the better leagues when they think they're a little above who they're playing against. Enemydown still host the fairly regular 32/64 team tournaments featuring teams that wouldn't play with the SGL lot, I think that's the new blood and a % of them will come through eventually!

God Bless

X

The same logic could work in the US, where the cgs has had an enormous influence on the top of 1.6.

So complexity came back and got RINSED by the people who rose to replace them. Who the hell are paragon of virtue? I dont know, they rinsed coL 16-5. Yeah the team TCM beat at gamegune, x3o? Yeah they beat them too.

The standard has risen, which is why its been so difficult for former pros to come back and be the standard they were back in the day. Just because the people they're playing were once bad doesn't mean they aren't anymore. And it doesn't mean the people who don't rise to their places in uk cs "by default" don't raise their game.

On the cheating front, decent anti-cheat now will catch the people who cheat rather than in years past, as has been said before, crap anti-cheat for years. Punkbuster and cheating death cracked in like a day...useless. And quite frankly, savace from the old nocturne lineup used to cheat incessantly, remember wilzoo vs 4k? God knows how many more werent caught. Cheating isnt more rife now, just catching them is.

nothing wrong with the old crouch and shoot fret i still do it all the time lol

already had to read an essay, then warren adds more

z0mG CS Beta was in balck and white!!??

mate, TFC was the best on WON, i didnt have broadband till like earley 1.5 so i started CS then, but TFC was the shizzle dizzle ma nizzle! - since steam, its DOG! when they first released steam and the WON servers was still up, everyone was like "na fuck goin to 1.6, all the shit players will go to 1.6 and all the good players will stay on 1.5" and they was right! not about the good players stayin in 1.5 but 1.5 was bloody BEAST!

Kelevra you can't TELL someone how to think just because you don't agree, jesus were you born with half a brain!?

Some of the people at the top now have been playing YEARS upon YEARS, spike for example was in suigeneris and now in dig. so some of the 'old school' players still actually play. Are they at the top now because they've played so long ? Or was it just defaulted to them ? Who knows ... I remember when people would laugh at teams like AcM and now look at most of their players!? Oh well

I'm still the best player in the UK.

Who are x3o????????

LOL 3-4 years ago AC's were none existent so no comparison can be made, I think the cheating is pretty much the same as its always been in random mixes etc, always a chance of it happening, as it has always been.

As for skill levels of old vs new players, nothing has changed top 3 from now would compete with top 3 from then, There are less skilled teams just below the top 3-4 nowadays than 3 years ago but not by a lot.

CS is still the same, but the community is smaller. You still have top tier of teams in the UK, 4K dig TLR TCM, just like you had in the old days, 4K lastchance TAG etc. The skill gap is smaller though, and it always comes down to who is willing to put more time into the game, drilling through tactics. There isn't much change at all, but since 1.6 has been out for a very long time everyone has just gotten better progressively (hence the smaller skill gap). Theres also only so many tactics you can do on each map that works, so everyone watches demos, clocks on and copies.

One thing that has changed though is that AC's are pretty much solid now so in officials there aren't the odd cheaters here and there, I don't even notice cheaters anymore apart from when I play the odd mix. I do prefer CS back in the day though, winning CSGN 4/5 times in a row and having a laugh every game. Now I find online CS pretty abismal and only enjoy CS at lans

Anyway it'll always be the same, new ppl will start playing the game, ppl at the top will quit. The new peeps will rinse the game cause its all new to them, get good then move their way up.... standard!

You dont have to go back 3-4 years, SGLac is two years old. in the last 18 months its gone up by 400% even though there has been less people playing. FACT.

if you draw the curve along that same line it suggests that cheating has gone up 3000% in a four year timeline based on the last 18 months.

oh also


Agreed

spunge and ovi have given potential cheaters hope that they can actually cheat on ac, I know at least two people that are doing it but theres fuck all i can do

For it to be a rant , all you have to is disagree. You cant have a debate by yourself , you need others , thus my opener was a debate starter not a debate in itself.

some of this is laughable - ie - eolithic didnt know how to boost or throw a grenade properly, it took years for complexity to eveolve and learn how to do it. what planet are you from?!?!? rofl

**Off topic**

Uzi just wondering (might be a silly question) but if SGLAC is only 2 years old, how come people are banned in like 2005 and stuff for cheating!?

Playing styles in CS progress as time goes on Uzi, what I was getting at was that since eoL people have learnt new postions to flash, and boost spots and other things.

I don't mean to sound like a nob in saying, but until you play CS at a fairly decent level you fail to understand a lot of major aspects in cs

:X

Uzi thats just the amount of people caught cheating on your ac, probably because they couldnt care less, If the same AC's were out back then i would venture that a similar curve would have occured 3-4 years ago as the ac came out and people slowly lost care in being caught and got sloppier and sloppier in their hiding of cheating. Again just conjecture as there are no stats for 3-4 years ago of a new AC coming out and people being caught, i recall people being caught on csgn AC fairly regularly.

Also



Couldnt agree more used to love playing cs back with wonderboys, but have slowly lost interest in online play unless under a good Ac (like SGL), which can be months inbetween with seasons starting and stopping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNr_LlKMyAE

I know it's probably the worst example I could try and pick from, but finding eoL footage is difficult - watch that then go watch n0thing movie/kode5 finals something like that.

the comparison is unreal, you tell me players havn't improved leaps and bounds since

i was just using forsaken as an example...i know it flopped bigger than johnny vegas, but still, there was a point a couple years back when interest grew, some old school players came back and some new teams started to flourish with the competition against experienced opponents...i think SGLac and the like have benefited...sure the pool may be shrunk due to bans, etc but the quality (as a whole) has evened out (as madspunk mentioned)...just because the top UK teams are spanking everyone 16-3 doesn't mean the skill level has dropped...it's just evened out (towards the better i think) over time...

You can't honestly say that CS was played at the same level 5 years ago as it is now, Uzi. The freedom of the game has been saturated, nothing is new anymore - the people in say 'the early era' were inventing new things and being creative.. there isn't much left that hasn't been done now.

Ok, as an example... watch the infamous SK vs NoA at CPL Winter 2003. The aim is similar.. however;

the movement of the players is inferior, the tactical 'elemeNt' wasn't quite as precise nor efficient, it was just generally not as organised as the highskilled team of today.

Reasons for this being people/teams have had to cope with these different situations within a given map environment.. and they've learnt how to counter or play against it. You put a guy who hasn't played for 3 years into say ramp on nuke. The guy (if he was good back then) will have excellent communication, teamplay and most probably aim, but have teams like say TLR or TCM holding then slowly grinding down their opposition and he won't be able to cope with the new style the game is being played.

You can't really say that a player from back then is better than a player now. Like any sport on paper the current crop of players are always going to be technically 'better' than their ancient counterparts.. but it's all relative to the state of the game and the overall level of the game at the time? You can't say George Best is better than Cristiano Ronaldo, or likewise.. because you just can't say who's better. There are WAY too many variables to take into consideration before making what would almost definitely be an irrational decision.



Ok Mr Uzi lets use SK-Gaming as a benchmark, more specifically SpawN in 2003 & 2008. This 1.6 team have been around forever and so has SpawN. SpawN in 2003 was playing for the best team in the world, as he (arguably) is now. The best team in the UK was 4Kings. You put the two teams together (in 2003) and SK would be the victors, but not without a fight from 4K. 2008 now. dignitas (the current top UK) vs SK, similar result. How can you honestly say that people don't improve and that it's all down to the order of a stack of players.

There's a reason there are so many unsuccessful comebacks to CS and people at the top flight quitting, they just can't cope with the way it's now played.

There are ALWAYS going to be 3/4 teams that compete at a higher level than the rest, there always has been. Even in football there's the domestic skill gap between the top 4 (Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal) and the rest of the country. To say there's NO WAY that a current top 10 UK team wouldn't beat a top UK team from 2004/5 is ridiculous.

You go round up Landed of 2005. I use these as an example because firstly the majority of their players quit around this era, and secondly they were within the top 5 UK at the time. Let them play together for 2 months then place them against TCM/TLR/FTD - and i'd imagine it to be a close game.

You see my theory is the best players are the best players due to few key attributes. The first obviously being aim, the others being teamwork, communication and ability to adapt.If you have these charactierists in your gamestyle then you will be able to cope no matter what year it is.




AGAIN, SpawN in 2003 won't be as technically good as SpawN in 2008. Suffz and Kal_101 were dog in 2003, but are much better in 2008. Yeah playing for longer doesn't mean you will improve? Get a grip. And of course people understand the game better. How you can even write that is beyond me.


... cheaters. Once again your point is void. How many of the top 5 UK teams have you seen cheating in pcw's or officials in the past year? Probably none. People used to cheat in the big games a few years ago, not just the little shitters you play against in pcws about but don't really care about. There are better systems now with improved AC measures. Gone are the days of people being able to use 16bit in leagues (CSGN Seasons 1/2/3/4/5) or being able to wallhack with only a HLTV and VAC to stop them.

How you can guage the number of cheats I don't know, but if anything UK CS has improved tenfold for its level of integrity in competitive CS. Naturally there are certain players (we all know who they are) who have a reputation of being out and out cheats but these people must be ignored.


Ok i've had numerous phone calls and a friend come round during the writing of this so I lost focus of what I was trying to say. Basically, no.

I'm not slating you Uzi i'm just voicing an opinion to the article you wrote.

xxxCt-RsUpErStAr2k84lyPhExxx

I do agree with that

n0thing movie/kode5 finals - anyone got a link for this?

Dignitas would probably shit on eoL 13-0 by todays standards.

n0thing is a freak of nature and if you get into individual players it becomes a lil bit of a pointless arguement, as reguardless of time, some players are going to be better then others. I agree with a lot of what Ct-R said tbh.

Probably on fragtorrent jimbok11 - I heavily advise watching the kode5 finals vid, some of the shit in that at such a high level on lan is

Big up to Ct-R, I agree with his post entirely, just where I was trying to come from

very interesting read

fist time I have had a reply longer than my usual long winded guff gj CTR

i agree with xxxCt-RsUpErStAr2k84lyPhExxx <3

theres really no basis for a debate, just watch an old demo or movie compared by todays standards as people have said. you (uzi) have said that eventually you would become the best player by default but back in the beginning people were the best almost by default simply because they played from the beginning. older players like heaton and potti couldn't keep up with the game as it progressed and even players that did like walle still have to practice daily to stay on top. as far as the uk is concerned we're as good now compared to national competition as we have ever been apart from the few british players that played in 4k at their best.

Ct-R has it perfectly.

i like it murdy, whipping out the mr12 x

You might have something with Heaton though - heres a picture of me outscoring him @ lan. Eeveyone in this pic should be ashamed i got more kills than them. Of course theyre all new players and im oldschool - so that backs up my argument perfectly....

Players have gotten players, but then theres still more to CS than just how good a player is. In competative CS you need to get a team organised, with set strats, that have practised and cut out strats that don't work, and can manage their money effectively. The ammount of times i play with or merc for a team that still buys mp5's 2nd gun round as CT after the terrorists have planted in pistol round astounds me. Now 3 years ago you may have seen a european team doing this, but not inside the last 2 years or so, this is because they know that with either 1 or 2 bomb plants, the first gun round comes earlier and so what a waste of 1500 dollars an mp5 is when you have to drop it for a colt/famas 3rd round to counter the terrorists buy. Its things like that that set a team appart from the rest, and the ability of a caller to constantly remember T spawn patterns, and what they tend to do as a default, whether they pick one site and fall back to the other, or take a pick and hit the site hard. This kind of play has developed in CS over the years, and its one of the deciding factors in how to play CS at a good level.

UK had a team that could compete with the rest of the world back in the good old days, now we don't. simple.

As a player starting back in 2002 I think I have quite an idea about how the scene is right now in terms of skills and cheats.

I would just like to get this part of 'more cheaters' out the way first. CAI already mentioned that 2 or 3 years ago there wasn't really any good AC's about... when there were the players who were in top teams were getting caught out! Nowadays all you get are the randoms and im struggling to think of the last CONTROVERSIAL cheat there was in the last year or 2?!?! Someone help me out here....

As far as skill wise, well i'm unsure really. I think Flu1d mentioned a good point about the gameplay and how it has changed. I would be very intruiged to see a battle of dignitas of now versus 4k of 2005... Back then it was a very slow game but now you are getting much quicker and aggresive strats. An example here are teams who have come back who used to be in the top 2 leagues of CSGN yet failed to make any impact on the game now. This could be because they didnt play enough to get back to their true standard, but if the scene now was not as good as back then - why couldnt they win their games with no problem! I dont really wanna give some examples of some teams as its not really fair, but time and time again i have seen oldskool names and players trying to get back in to the scene but fail badly....

It's an interesting debate but it's hard to analyse... Like i say though i would love to see a match of 4k old skool v dignitas new skool....

1.6 is shit bring back codename eagle

I want a TV show, lots of lights. HARDTALK feat Ct-R & Uzi

Coming from the Danish cs scene, I would say the level here in the UK cs scene is low compared to teams in Scandinavia. Most teams you see in the top10 here are on the same level as a semi team in Scandinavia.
But it's not here the problem is and I don't think the teams here are worse than 2 or 3 years ago, far from it. It's just peoples attitude towards the game that's killing the cs scene and the general use of 'I was cheating for fun'. With all the cheaters here and the 'special people' in the forums or ingame it's really hard to find motivation to play cs on a serious level. I think this is why we see more players quiting cs and new players are more likely to be a part of the horde of retards.
Of course if you are in a top team this doesn't seem like a problem, but this is also why we see the big gap between teams in the top10 and teams outside the top10.

Look at all the talk and hate about people cheating and cheaters, nobody cared about wilzooo or kritikal harriman or any of these players cheating their tits off but when "John unknown Spunge" or some other random does it , it's automatic flame at the poor guy. Oh and yes I PLAYED with the 3 names I've mentioned while cheating. So that's not a debate or argument. My point is cheating is always gunna be the same, just seems to be more known now , thanks to anti-cheats and such.

Firstly, the reason people raged about spunge cheating was the way he then put it in a movie to show off how good he is. It's sad to cheat as it is but to cheat to get footage for a movie? Jesus thats some self confidence problem right there, oh and then he cheated on ac.


People keep going on about individual skill level, please remember competative cs is a team game, and a team of 5 sick aimers with no team work or tactics, will always loose to 5 bad aimers with sick tactics and team work. I think complexity is such a good example of how 1.6 has changed, yes ok they havent played in a long time but if it hasnt changed it shouldnt be that hard to get back into? Obviously not...

The reason 1.6 in the uk is so bad is because its not "cool" to play cs and other computer games. What i would really love is that for the next counter strike game, valve got together with some of the well known 1.6 professional players and worked together to make a game that would bring competative gaming forward. Because at the end of the day valve make cs (especially cs:s) for public play, thats where they get there money.

I stopped playing CS simply because of how time consuming it was. I began to get annoyed with the 'kids' in the game that just pissed me off in any way or form.

Another reason why the CS scene is getting smaller and smaller is the fact that people go off to university, get a job, leave home etc - you get the picture and with no influx of new/younger players it's always a losing battle.

Save yourself the time playing this game and find a new hobby is what I would say if someone asked me about 1.6. I understand many people like myself do love a few good hours of competitive gaming every week, and I also understand the fact that many people still enjoy playing 1.6 - so each to their own.

I started gaming simply because of how limited Wolverhampton is, there is literally nothing to do round here and I live many miles away from my friends (without a car makes this even more frustrating).

The game is going downhill, the and the 1.6 scene is too.

RIP tbh.

I've sat here for many years of my life developing my Counter-Strike career.
And i can truthfully say that the scene is more then corrupt now, the sheer amount of cheaters amazes me, and let alone programmers developing private cheats is just even worse.
I can truthfully say there's been so many people who have cheated before, and i am one, hence my amazing 8 digit SteamID. At the start i can say it was a little fun but then as time went on it got very boring and owning people like through 19 walls pressing 1 button was extremely boring.
So i moved on from that point realizing that it was bloody crap and hell not fun, so i raised my game and have competed without cheats all these years and honestly it's just got so downhill because of the amount of cheaters infact there's so many you cannot differentiate the difference between a high skill player with just alot of knowledge or a cheater.
This is one of my main reasons for moving to Counter-Strike Source, where cheaters can't bullshit you as much but is clearly made obvious when they do, and where the prize money is alot higher and the skill level and gap is hardly that big.
But as for skill level i believe that the old school teams would get owned by new school teams.

CHEATER SPIKE

The quality of the responses shows there are still plenty of mature people playing!

A point about cheating, it may have risen 400% but the amount of people stupid enough to cheat on anti-cheat may be so low that a handfull of idiots can mess up the data and show a big increase, even if this means 4 people were caught instead of 0- this is not reflective of the overall scene.

Lets stamp down on cheaters!!! DAMN THEM!!!!

cy@ danneth H@H@H

The 1.6 Scene is rapidly going downhill i thought it could be saved but it's not really going to be, i mean WCG Lan there were 3 teams that went! i mean cmon, theres more teams going to wiredinn4!
Everyone move to source and make it more good (: like me, i'm printing my mark on that scene now, i've done alot to print mine on this 1.6, maybe i'm known, maybe i'm not, it appears some people already know that me and blacky are from 1.6!

In defence of WCG, its a lot of money to spend especially when you know what teh outcome was going to be before you even got there + it was obvious before it started they wouldnt get the cs teams there since A: they dont market the event to them and B: it was sold out to css cod4 and tf2 teams well in advance so a cs team would have struggled to get a place after the online qualifiers anyway.

This is why wired inn will be much more attractive to teams than an iseries event.

people grow up and move on. the people that don't move on get bored because they're not getting any better, download cheats, and give abuse to people who are worse than them.

ukcs is full of cunts basically

nice read, dont care much i love cs to much

WCG quals at i34 were 4 teams maximum. 3 teams from online quals, 1 team from the onsite last chance quals. And seeing as no team that turns up was gonna beat 4k in the last chance quals and faction didnt tell multiplay/multiplay didnt care enough to get a 4th team to go, no 4th team. But quite frankly, the top 3 teams in the UK were there, what else do you want.

the guy make some sense finally.

im sorry but if eol come back now, dignitas would not beat them.

and your right there is no skillgap in source, because everyone is shit.

i think a lot of the problem is the attitude exhibited in many of the comments here..."ofc no more teams went, the top3 were there, what's the point"...forgetting WCG where there was a 4-team limit, most LANs don't get heavy attendance when the top teams go for the money...that attitude isn't the same in places like Scandinavia...i mean, Dreamhack wasn't always a premier LAN, but the sheer volume of clans (good and bad) meant that prizes could be offered, rep grow, etc...

haha craig <3

the thing is, now, everyone knows how to play cs because there are no 'noobs' coming through. 5 years ago there was a complete scene - ED 3-prem; hundreds of teams and the top layer of cs had 20+ teams that would be rated invite in SGL these days. theres less players to make teams from, so new teams are just recycling old players hoping that this reform will be the one.

I remember a point where i stopped trying to play cs properly, it was several years ago and it was in the final of a lan somewhere where i played against wez! I remembered thinking that i should be able to hammer him and his friends because i'd 'played longer' and knew how to get around the fact they had a better aim than me, but in the end they won in overtime. My point was that even though wez and his friends had been playing for a relatively short time in comparison to my team, they played a completely different style, faster more aggressive and to me they werent playing 'properly' or how they should play! I was too stubborn to change the way i played so ended up gradually getting worse and worse then! Newer players then all started to play like these teams and the game changed completely, the games evolved slightly in terms of how you play it. Although how one competetive game can carry on running with only really four competition maps is unbelievable. There should be a whole host of new maps to encourage new teams. If there were new maps then new teams would come through, those who have spent time developing new tactics and then we wouldnt see the same teams winning all the time! Silly cs :P

If I hadn't of palmed the guy keeping the centre open a £50 then you wouldn't have had to worry about overtime in that game lol.

Thats it over 100 posts on this one.My work here is done, tune in next time to "let uzi get you all riled up part III". - 200 comments next time, it's really going to get your goat hahahah.

#102

Something like so why is source so much better than CS is bound to get 200 messages laying in to you

FtD by3by3by3

next debate , should uzi allow players banned for cheating back into SGL hahaa, would be classic.

i heard that 92% of statistics are made up on the spot

bring back breakable box

#94, who ever told you that we didnt tell them? I was actually conferring with an admin way before the lan started so they had plenty of time to invite runners up and such.

straight from Antony 'Doc' Gardner himself:



cha ching

what? BwAv are always bringing noobs into CS. I'm back on arran this week, i'll recruit some more islanders for the start of next season.
i've said it once, and i'll say it again! The UK scene is very intraverted, most of you have a phobia of playing "foreigners". Should get out, play the world's best players, then fair enough bring what you learned back to UK gaming to make it better.
As a clan we always try to get a mix in game of skill v noobs, cos theres only one way to learn...the HARD way! The feedback i get from noobs is great, cos they feel part of the team, and in time, can repay their training by clutching those all important rounds!

so many essays on here!
iv been playing since around 2002 and it was SO much easier to cheat back then, cos i used to do it....
cheating-death? had a cheat for it.
csgn ac? had a cheat for it.
sgl ac? didnt play it until with nofear!

basically i used to hack my tits off before nofear, and people who i play with now who actually know me know this anyway, but i didnt care i was a little kid then.

i got arrogant etc, knew who else cheated (a LOT of people who people thought were good, if u wonder pm me and ill tell u)
so i went for a spot in nofear, didnt cheat and got in. since then iv never cheated in a pcw, iv been to lans, played in a shitload of leagues and got very annoyed by cheats.

yeh iv cheated in a few latenight 2v2s etc etc, but end of the day, if ur under 17 year of ages u will almost definitely have cheated in order to try and progress more quickly than you could.

1 thing i HATE is wen people who have massive ids brag about how they played back in the day in csgn prem etc (hi cOndro) yet say they dont cheat, they jus had to buy a new account for 'insert xcuse here'

yeh i have a huge id, i got vacced using sum awful cheat in a 2v2.

might as well admit it u look less like a mug.

so no, cheaters havent increased, your jus catching more of them.

so good job to you.

oh and CAI ur too old and too shit to get together a team and hit top 3 anymore. u have friends who are good at the game but the skilllevel now means all 5 of ur team would have to be good in order to do that

dont agree with most of this. but headshot man and zak talk sense.
the game is surprisingly different now and the speed and accuracy of aim is one the changes, and aggressiveness of play styles.

you gona get banned

haven't played 1.6 in months.. it's a timewaster really.. a lot of teams in the uk are wasting time playing, because most of them don't even have fun on it anymore, judging by the amount of rage passed around, and even the top 3 uk teams don't make much/any cash from it.. so it's a general waste of life lol

think some of you are getting a bit too in depth about it now i think the real question is where is the next step is there a way of making it good or do we just take it on the chin and stop playing 1.6 ... ?

ptm/y3peto.exe?

we found ulti on ed, hes a noob fs.

it's just the availability of cheats now, "back in the day" people tried all they could to cheat just as much, back when configging was the thing to do. And people actually ASKED others for cheats back then "oh gimme a cheat thatz wont gert m3 vacced pls?" but now it's more like "i got jesus.exe lawlz u want it?? PLS???"

I bet AT LEAST 50% of people here could get in contact with someone who can give them cheats in about 1 msn conversation. I'm just hoping that the next "jesus.exe" is either detected or a virus, that would put people off running random exes they get sent..

I'm still sticking with the fact that I miss the old "demo proof" days, firstly it really did prove kids were cheating rather than the "oh i was watchin a demo then forgot to restart" an all that jazz, because frankly that's bound to be true ALOT of the time. Not so much demo watching but cheating off ac. Yea yea we shouldn't be tolerant of it but what can you do..

And secondly, a clip (like back in the days when all cheat bans had a lil clip made by the opposite team showing them cheating) REALLY makes them look like idiots. When you see someone just tracing through walls trying to be smart and failing, it really shows them up :{ a little "[BANNED]" doesn't have the same effect these days

The top 3 UK teams attended eh? and that makes a good event does it, the best it can get? good events are where an underdog team truly does a remarkable win against someone seeded alot better.
If it wasn't capped to 4 teams would more teams attend? i don't think so.

1 of the biggest reasons ppl have stopped playing counterstrike 1.6 is because of the public servers, there are so many hackers and not enough gd admins that know when to spot a hacker which causes rage from other players. When u get mixes off irc there are hackers as well there are far 2 many hackers in 1.6 now. The uk has the worst reputation for hackers and little boys who rage when they get beat fair a square. 90% of mixes i play always end in 1 team taking rage instead of just enjoying the game for what it is

I hate when people have it safe it their heads that everyone has cheated, all it takes not to is an ounce of respect for others.

The rage in the UK scene really does mostly come from the cheating though, because there's so much of it theres a lot more to argue about (yes even in officials).

Isnt that spn guy spunge? swear it is ROFL at his replies lol.

yeah it is xx

an bm` uzi said the statistics and said it's surprising how many people DO cheat / have off ac. Although I think it's pretty dumb to assume / generalise that people who play with "cheaters" cheat themselves. I've done that though, I assumed you would be a lil' cheat kiddo bm cos of locked etc. but apparently you would "never cheat". The amount of accusations people get who've ever played with ninteh is ROFL

youre giving it about cheating? the fuck.

I dont even understand why youre in this conversation, you got banned hacking on AC, just do what ovi did and accept it.

locked have just been unlucky with the cheating rep... nathaaaa a year ago when we were a fun team decided to try out cheats one night without saying a word to anyone, then danneth, there is nothing we can do about this except move on.

Of course I would never cheat, im not a complete moron...you probably wouldn't understand but some people have respect for competition and just a little common sense.

Also its you and ovi that make people think everyone around you cheat, not ninteh

cs could be good in the uk scene, but to many people spend most of the time forum grinding instead of actually playing the game ambassador of the game

#122

i'm not "giving it about cheating" at all ?

I'm saying how people wrongly accuse others just through association, and I was making the point by giving you an example of where I wrongly assumed someone cheated, just because of what i've heard.


& No, no one said either of us cheated before playing with ninteh etc. Even though hes totally against cheating people just see his movies and assume everyone in them must cheat. Same thing with assuming entire clans / whoever you mix with cheats just because you think one person does.

the uk scene in cs is going down hill and has been for years, on every public server u go on theres a hackers. People buy accounts on ebay etc to hack :S how sad can u get play the fuckin game and stfu ITS A GAME

Pointless Debate, When are people going to realise that the decline of the UK CS scene is not because of cheats, gulf in skill levels, no funding crap net connections or anything else... you want to know the real reason? TIME, It's OLD, there isn't the same volume of fresh blood.

As for the issue of new teams being more skill full than old teams?
ZZZzzzZZZZzzzzZZZZzzz

Different rules like shorter round time more rounds etc etc
It's not more skillfull.... just different.
IMO Playing by todays rules old teams would get spanked.
but play by older rules with less rounds and longer round time old teams would win.

Tactics totally change... when are people going to grasp that.

I mean if FIFA decided football was only going to last 30 minutes you think the premier league positions would stay the same..... I rest my case!

willyfantastic, condro was logged in on my pc didnt realise till after i typed the message out

I actually agree with Uzi on this, but only partially.

I don't think you can actually compare. However, if you were TRYING o (a big leap),

1) SK 2003 would smash SK 2008.
2) If eoL were given time to practice for 2 months, they would still smash Dignitas, even though I love Dig.

Just compare this to the competitive starcraft scene -> You get good players, and it's all dependent on a) the practice you put in, and B) how you practice against the current TRENDS of your time.

And on the comment of Cheats -> back in 2002 I left as many mixes as I do today because I see people on my team cheating. It's fairly obvious once you get to know the game, unless they hide it REALLY well. Just AC catches more cheats now than before.

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